Comments on: Organized Religion http://docott.com/apologia/2005/09/25/organized-religion/ Musings about life and the world Fri, 05 Dec 2008 02:12:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: Merrill Butterman http://docott.com/apologia/2005/09/25/organized-religion/#comment-5 Merrill Butterman Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:36:00 +0000 http://docott.com/apologia/2005/09/25/organized-religion/#comment-5 I am a Mormom but I appreciated the post very much. Personally speaking, I think the danger of organized religion is that when a distortion of a principle or value occurs then it is passed to the congregation and it is believed without questioning it. It is my opinion that God requires obedience through respect and not fear. How can we be honest to him when we say we love him when in reality we fear his punishments if we don't fear him. Just between you and me, I could never frame fear and love in the same picture, but thats just me. I like to consider myself a "thinking christian" and I think it's all part of the design to question because that is how we learn the answers. Yep Doc, I often wonder about the Mormon faith and considered leaving it, I stay for the time being but I refuse to surrender my ability to question my beliefs and how I relate to them. It reminds me of a story of a once well intentioned pastor of a jonestown settlement and in the terrible end he was able to convince hundreds of people to take there own lives so that they may live. I think even organized religion has to have its check and balances. Once we surrender our ability to question, we can be convinced of anything. Ask Jim Jones sometime, he would agree. Cheers, MButterman I am a Mormom but I appreciated the post very much. Personally speaking, I think the danger of organized religion is that when a distortion of a principle or value occurs then it is passed to the congregation and it is believed without questioning it. It is my opinion that God requires obedience through respect and not fear. How can we be honest to him when we say we love him when in reality we fear his punishments if we don’t fear him. Just between you and me, I could never frame fear and love in the same picture, but thats just me. I like to consider myself a “thinking christian” and I think it’s all part of the design to question because that is how we learn the answers. Yep Doc, I often wonder about the Mormon faith and considered leaving it, I stay for the time being but I refuse to surrender my ability to question my beliefs and how I relate to them. It reminds me of a story of a once well intentioned pastor of a jonestown settlement and in the terrible end he was able to convince hundreds of people to take there own lives so that they may live. I think even organized religion has to have its check and balances. Once we surrender our ability to question, we can be convinced of anything. Ask Jim Jones sometime, he would agree.

Cheers,
MButterman

]]> By: Doc Ott’s Apologia Blog » Blog Archive » Humans need a natural predator http://docott.com/apologia/2005/09/25/organized-religion/#comment-3 Doc Ott’s Apologia Blog » Blog Archive » Humans need a natural predator Sat, 10 Dec 2005 11:12:04 +0000 http://docott.com/apologia/2005/09/25/organized-religion/#comment-3 [...] Ok, so this one is controversial, more so than some of my other posts, but try to stay with me here. For that to happen, you have to stop believing that the Earth is only 6000 some odd years old. Stop thinking that some almighty being (some people prefer to use the word GOD) created human beings to rule the earth and all other animals. If you can’t make that separation, the rest of this story will not take root. Try to have an open (non-religious) mind. If you think you DESERVE to be at the top of the food chain for some ‘faith’ reason, then this will not make sense to you and you will accuse me of being some sort of prick. Again, try hard to have an open mind. You might want to read my opine on organized religion before you read this post. With that preamble… We, as humans, sit at the top of the food chain, and that is a dangerous place. For tens of thousands of years, we were not the rulers of the world we are today. We used to get killed by animals and we (as human beings) were just another animal on the planet. Tigers, lions and other large animals scared us pretty bad. We might get lucky killing one every once in a while for food, but we tried pretty hard not to piss them off as we went about our lives. We moved around, not planting ourselves in any one place. Now what happened next is somewhat controversial, but the short version is we managed to stop being scared of other animals (fire, weapons, bigger brains, whatever) and the world changed FOREVER. We no longer had to keep moving as hunter gathers. We could finally start staying put, start farming, start pro-creating and not having to worry about our small children or slow older relatives getting eaten by the bad animals. Time passes, we get smarter as we start writing things down so the transfer of intelligence becomes much more efficient. We no longer learn the ‘trade’ of our parents. We travel to new lands, and learn more and more and more. We pro-create, have more and more babies. With larger families, we need more land. We take it. We rape the landscape of natural resources because we need to and more importantly because we can. For a very very long time over population was not a problem. Why? We died early because of disease and being eaten by big animals. We solved the animal thing (Guns Guns Guns!) and then we discovered the world of medicine (Chemistry, whoo-hoo!) and now we are living twice as long as we were 200 years ago (that’s a lot considering how long us humans have been around) So now what do we have? An environmental catastrophe from sucking natural resources out of the earth to feed our own desires (you Americans, I swear) and just providing for the massive number of people on the planet. We have all sorts of social ills as well. A health care crisis, massive starvation, over population, war, murder, blah blah blah. I have a solution that would solve all of these things. Get our butts off the top of the food chain. We need a natural predator that we can’t ‘kill’. What will happen? The young, old, sick, and not-so-smart will die and be removed from society. What will be left? The smart and quick. The best of the gene pool if you will, and those are the ones who will reproduce and carry on the species. Now, many of you at this point are thinking I should stop doing crack, but hear me out. Isn’t this what happens in almost every other species of animal on the planet? Deer? Bats? Rabbits? Mosquitoes? Who survives being eaten? The fast and smart. Those with the ‘better’ genes carry on the species. Do we have a welfare system for all those poor deer that are getting eaten by the wolves? Don’t they have a right to live long? Why not? Oh, that’s right, they are not human, so we shouldn’t treat them the same. Those people over at PETA think we should protect them all. We need to spend some tax dollars there. We have ‘Humane Societies’ for animals. Does that make sense? Treating animals like we treat humans? Where does it end? I know lots of people who support (donate $$ to?) humane societies and still eat burgers on a regular basis (Cow Killers!!) If we were relegated back to being just another species on the planet, with some power over some animals but being able to be killed by others (maybe not animals, disease we can’t cure?), many ‘problems’ that we spend money and resources on would be gone. We might even enjoy life better. Do you think most large mammals hate life, get depressed, and feel sorry for their fellow mammal? Nope. If you don’t believe that ‘god’ created us 6000 years ago and that we evolved into the top of the food chain, then where did we get this idea that we get to rule the earth, extract all resources and dictate the fate of every other species on the planet? How flipping arrogant is that? [...] […] Ok, so this one is controversial, more so than some of my other posts, but try to stay with me here. For that to happen, you have to stop believing that the Earth is only 6000 some odd years old. Stop thinking that some almighty being (some people prefer to use the word GOD) created human beings to rule the earth and all other animals. If you can’t make that separation, the rest of this story will not take root. Try to have an open (non-religious) mind. If you think you DESERVE to be at the top of the food chain for some ‘faith’ reason, then this will not make sense to you and you will accuse me of being some sort of prick. Again, try hard to have an open mind. You might want to read my opine on organized religion before you read this post. With that preamble… We, as humans, sit at the top of the food chain, and that is a dangerous place. For tens of thousands of years, we were not the rulers of the world we are today. We used to get killed by animals and we (as human beings) were just another animal on the planet. Tigers, lions and other large animals scared us pretty bad. We might get lucky killing one every once in a while for food, but we tried pretty hard not to piss them off as we went about our lives. We moved around, not planting ourselves in any one place. Now what happened next is somewhat controversial, but the short version is we managed to stop being scared of other animals (fire, weapons, bigger brains, whatever) and the world changed FOREVER. We no longer had to keep moving as hunter gathers. We could finally start staying put, start farming, start pro-creating and not having to worry about our small children or slow older relatives getting eaten by the bad animals. Time passes, we get smarter as we start writing things down so the transfer of intelligence becomes much more efficient. We no longer learn the ‘trade’ of our parents. We travel to new lands, and learn more and more and more. We pro-create, have more and more babies. With larger families, we need more land. We take it. We rape the landscape of natural resources because we need to and more importantly because we can. For a very very long time over population was not a problem. Why? We died early because of disease and being eaten by big animals. We solved the animal thing (Guns Guns Guns!) and then we discovered the world of medicine (Chemistry, whoo-hoo!) and now we are living twice as long as we were 200 years ago (that’s a lot considering how long us humans have been around) So now what do we have? An environmental catastrophe from sucking natural resources out of the earth to feed our own desires (you Americans, I swear) and just providing for the massive number of people on the planet. We have all sorts of social ills as well. A health care crisis, massive starvation, over population, war, murder, blah blah blah. I have a solution that would solve all of these things. Get our butts off the top of the food chain. We need a natural predator that we can’t ‘kill’. What will happen? The young, old, sick, and not-so-smart will die and be removed from society. What will be left? The smart and quick. The best of the gene pool if you will, and those are the ones who will reproduce and carry on the species. Now, many of you at this point are thinking I should stop doing crack, but hear me out. Isn’t this what happens in almost every other species of animal on the planet? Deer? Bats? Rabbits? Mosquitoes? Who survives being eaten? The fast and smart. Those with the ‘better’ genes carry on the species. Do we have a welfare system for all those poor deer that are getting eaten by the wolves? Don’t they have a right to live long? Why not? Oh, that’s right, they are not human, so we shouldn’t treat them the same. Those people over at PETA think we should protect them all. We need to spend some tax dollars there. We have ‘Humane Societies’ for animals. Does that make sense? Treating animals like we treat humans? Where does it end? I know lots of people who support (donate $$ to?) humane societies and still eat burgers on a regular basis (Cow Killers!!) If we were relegated back to being just another species on the planet, with some power over some animals but being able to be killed by others (maybe not animals, disease we can’t cure?), many ‘problems’ that we spend money and resources on would be gone. We might even enjoy life better. Do you think most large mammals hate life, get depressed, and feel sorry for their fellow mammal? Nope. If you don’t believe that ‘god’ created us 6000 years ago and that we evolved into the top of the food chain, then where did we get this idea that we get to rule the earth, extract all resources and dictate the fate of every other species on the planet? How flipping arrogant is that? […]

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